Sera el boxeo el arte marcial mas peligroso?

eldiariero escribió:Voy a escribir mis articulos en Uruguayo, van a ver !!!!! : twisted:

eldiariero escribió:Leonel,muchas gracias!!!!aprecio tu esfuerzo.
Vos sabes que hace un rato,me aparecio en la PC arriba una cosa que decia que traducia del ingles al español.
Eso lo hicistes vos?
jajajajaja ya se que soy una teta en esto,por eso pregunto...jajajajaj
Saludos

eldiariero escribió:Se dara cuenta sola la maquina de que no entiendo nada?
No estaremos frente a un "Teerminertor"?....

Pues me parece que lo que tu no tienes bien claro es que un Arte Marcial puede combertirse en deporte de combate cuando se le ponen reglas como es el caso del Boxeo, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Karate, ect. Estoy consiente que en la antiguedad existian combates de Boxeo como puedes leer en este articulo que traje hace meses al foro:

http://www.paneldeboxeo.com/la-historia-del-boxeo-grandes-peleas-f9/3-facts-con-boxerfacts-el-origen-del-boxeo-t2235.htm

Saludos.

Boxerfacts escribió:The Martial Art of Boxing
By Tom Shook - Published in 2005


Most people, even fighters, don’t think of boxing as a martial art. Boxing is a western sport and has no place in practical martial arts discussion because there is no carry over into a combat or self defense situation, or so most people believe.

Nothing could be further from the truth when discussing the practical value of boxing. The sport is a simple one for beginners to learn; yet the complexities make perfection nearly impossible to attain. It can take a lifetime to master the sweet science.

From the very start, a novice boxer is taught to fight. He will learn to throw crisp jabs and straight right hands (assuming an orthodox fighter). The fundamentals will be stressed and practiced repeatedly until they become second nature. It is during this early learning period that fighters are instructed in a proper stance, covering up, footwork and throwing punches without telegraphing them. New fighters will quickly move to hitting the punch mitts, heavy bag and double end bag while practicing their punches. This training reinforces the need for balance, coordination, control and accuracy.

Compare this approach to the more traditional martial arts. Novices are usually taught to stand in a very impractical stance, which would leave them vulnerable and defenseless in a real world scenario. They are taught to punch from a low hand position, and usually introduced to an intricate blocking system that relies on specific strikes being thrown at the practitioner in order to respond with the appropriate defense. Rarely does a novice martial artist throw at strike at a target other than air, and his movements appear awkward and mechanical.

Boxers learn effective combination punching drills and they develop hooks, upper cuts and feints. At the same time they are also learning defensive skills such as slipping, ducking, bobbing and weaving and parrying. It is quite common for a boxing coach to throw “counter punches” while holding the mitts for a fighter. This reminds a fighter to pay attention to defense, even in the midst of launching an attack or following through with a counter. A boxer soon understands the importance of returning his hands to the guard position after throwing a punch or else he will be painfully countered. All the while a boxer is moving around the ring, improving his footwork and timing as well as improving his defense in a natural and free flowing manner.

In boxing, there is a heavy focus on physical conditioning that is not as emphasized in more traditional martial arts. Boxers will perform exercises to develop strength, speed and stamina. They will develop the ability to fight longer and harder, to continue to fight while fatigued and to absorb blows from their opponents. The importance of being able to “go the distance” is stressed early on in a boxer’s career.

Boxers devote a lot of training time to sparring. Here they will put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. At first the sessions are conducted a slower speed and with lighter force or contact, until the newcomer gets used to the fact that he is going to be hit. It takes a lot of doing for someone to get punched in the face and ignore it while continuing to move and look for openings to deliver his own shots. It takes discipline and practice to maintain composure while under attack. The late Bruce Lee was once quoted as saying that “you learn how to fight by fighting.” He hit it right on the button with that statement.

When sparring, especially with more lively sessions, a fighter will learn what does and doesn’t work. His style will develop naturally, based on his own unique physical attributes. For example, a tall fighter with long arms will usually gravitate towards fighting from the outside and basing his attack off of a crisp jab. A smaller but quicker boxer may learn to slip and weave to the inside before launching a vicious barrage of punches. Mike Tyson, the former heavyweight champion, was a prime example. Despite being relatively short by heavyweight standards, he was able to use his speed, footwork and constant head movement to work his way inside of the reach of taller opponents. Once inside, Iron Mike would throw short, devastating punches to the body and head. This is a level of fighting skill that few could ever hope to achieve.

Through sparring, boxers will also learn the most important skill of all for a successful fighter…relaxation. Any inexperienced fighter has a tendency to tense up when in a threatening situation. It is not uncommon to see novices and more experienced fighters alike that are so tense that they are not effective. It is only when a fighter learns to be relaxed and fluid in the ring that he becomes proficient. When a fighter is tight, he will rapidly become exhausted; likewise a tight fighter is a slow fighter. Most traditional martial artists do not spend enough time actually fighting to ever learn to fully relax and move with grace and fluidity against a real life opponent.

While the overall arsenal of a boxer seems small in comparison to some other martial arts, it is easy to see that one cannot mistake quantity for quality. The longer it takes to decide which technique to use, the slower your response time becomes. It would seem then, from a practical point of view, that a few well-practiced moves would allow a fighter to be fast and effective. Boxers spend most of their time drilling the fundamentals and practicing them in real fighting situations. They develop keen reflexes and an instinct for timing. This ability to react without thinking comes from countless hours of training, and not from memorizing any sort of pre planned moves. The natural, free-style manner of boxing leads to the development of fighting skills that are unparalleled in the martial arts community.

Boxers are well equipped to handle themselves in most self-defense situations. It is very difficult to contend with an opponent that is constantly moving and throwing multiple blows in rapid succession. He hits with precision and power and avoids punches while positioning himself to counter. A boxer has the stamina to continue fighting at a rapid pace long after most well conditioned athletes would have become too exhausted to defend themselves.

Bueno hermano todos los articulos que he buscado escritos por "expertos" dicen que el Boxeo es un Arte Marcial. Al igual que los videos que hablan de las artes marciales. No se que mas puedo hacer para convencerte. Saludos

ElDaro escribió:

Boxerfacts escribió:The Martial Art of Boxing
By Tom Shook - Published in 2005


Most people, even fighters, don’t think of boxing as a martial art. Boxing is a western sport and has no place in practical martial arts discussion because there is no carry over into a combat or self defense situation, or so most people believe.

Nothing could be further from the truth when discussing the practical value of boxing. The sport is a simple one for beginners to learn; yet the complexities make perfection nearly impossible to attain. It can take a lifetime to master the sweet science.

From the very start, a novice boxer is taught to fight. He will learn to throw crisp jabs and straight right hands (assuming an orthodox fighter). The fundamentals will be stressed and practiced repeatedly until they become second nature. It is during this early learning period that fighters are instructed in a proper stance, covering up, footwork and throwing punches without telegraphing them. New fighters will quickly move to hitting the punch mitts, heavy bag and double end bag while practicing their punches. This training reinforces the need for balance, coordination, control and accuracy.

Compare this approach to the more traditional martial arts. Novices are usually taught to stand in a very impractical stance, which would leave them vulnerable and defenseless in a real world scenario. They are taught to punch from a low hand position, and usually introduced to an intricate blocking system that relies on specific strikes being thrown at the practitioner in order to respond with the appropriate defense. Rarely does a novice martial artist throw at strike at a target other than air, and his movements appear awkward and mechanical.

Boxers learn effective combination punching drills and they develop hooks, upper cuts and feints. At the same time they are also learning defensive skills such as slipping, ducking, bobbing and weaving and parrying. It is quite common for a boxing coach to throw “counter punches” while holding the mitts for a fighter. This reminds a fighter to pay attention to defense, even in the midst of launching an attack or following through with a counter. A boxer soon understands the importance of returning his hands to the guard position after throwing a punch or else he will be painfully countered. All the while a boxer is moving around the ring, improving his footwork and timing as well as improving his defense in a natural and free flowing manner.

In boxing, there is a heavy focus on physical conditioning that is not as emphasized in more traditional martial arts. Boxers will perform exercises to develop strength, speed and stamina. They will develop the ability to fight longer and harder, to continue to fight while fatigued and to absorb blows from their opponents. The importance of being able to “go the distance” is stressed early on in a boxer’s career.

Boxers devote a lot of training time to sparring. Here they will put all of the pieces of the puzzle together. At first the sessions are conducted a slower speed and with lighter force or contact, until the newcomer gets used to the fact that he is going to be hit. It takes a lot of doing for someone to get punched in the face and ignore it while continuing to move and look for openings to deliver his own shots. It takes discipline and practice to maintain composure while under attack. The late Bruce Lee was once quoted as saying that “you learn how to fight by fighting.” He hit it right on the button with that statement.

When sparring, especially with more lively sessions, a fighter will learn what does and doesn’t work. His style will develop naturally, based on his own unique physical attributes. For example, a tall fighter with long arms will usually gravitate towards fighting from the outside and basing his attack off of a crisp jab. A smaller but quicker boxer may learn to slip and weave to the inside before launching a vicious barrage of punches. Mike Tyson, the former heavyweight champion, was a prime example. Despite being relatively short by heavyweight standards, he was able to use his speed, footwork and constant head movement to work his way inside of the reach of taller opponents. Once inside, Iron Mike would throw short, devastating punches to the body and head. This is a level of fighting skill that few could ever hope to achieve.

Through sparring, boxers will also learn the most important skill of all for a successful fighter…relaxation. Any inexperienced fighter has a tendency to tense up when in a threatening situation. It is not uncommon to see novices and more experienced fighters alike that are so tense that they are not effective. It is only when a fighter learns to be relaxed and fluid in the ring that he becomes proficient. When a fighter is tight, he will rapidly become exhausted; likewise a tight fighter is a slow fighter. Most traditional martial artists do not spend enough time actually fighting to ever learn to fully relax and move with grace and fluidity against a real life opponent.

While the overall arsenal of a boxer seems small in comparison to some other martial arts, it is easy to see that one cannot mistake quantity for quality. The longer it takes to decide which technique to use, the slower your response time becomes. It would seem then, from a practical point of view, that a few well-practiced moves would allow a fighter to be fast and effective. Boxers spend most of their time drilling the fundamentals and practicing them in real fighting situations. They develop keen reflexes and an instinct for timing. This ability to react without thinking comes from countless hours of training, and not from memorizing any sort of pre planned moves. The natural, free-style manner of boxing leads to the development of fighting skills that are unparalleled in the martial arts community.

Boxers are well equipped to handle themselves in most self-defense situations. It is very difficult to contend with an opponent that is constantly moving and throwing multiple blows in rapid succession. He hits with precision and power and avoids punches while positioning himself to counter. A boxer has the stamina to continue fighting at a rapid pace long after most well conditioned athletes would have become too exhausted to defend themselves.

Bueno hermano todos los articulos que he buscado escritos por "expertos" dicen que el Boxeo es un Arte Marcial. Al igual que los videos que hablan de las artes marciales. No se que mas puedo hacer para convencerte. Saludos

Eso es lo que dice este articulo, claro, pero tal parece que no has leido todos los que yo te traje a colacion, que dicen exactamente lo contrario. El autor de este aboga (pateticamente) por la inclusion del boxeo como arte marcial, pero simplemente no lo es, solo es un deporte. Por que nunca has oido a algun comentarista tildar al boxeo como arte marcial??, No, siempre lo senalan como deporte.
Dos personas en la calle tirandose golpes es arte marcial? No, es solo una pelea callejera. Ahora, le pones reglas, un referee, y lo cobras como entretenimiento y se convierte en DEPORTE de combate, NO en Arte Marcial.
Aqui te traigo un fragmento de un articulo muy largo para citar entero

...Sport fighting, however, has two primary goals
1) To ensure the safety of the participants through limited offense maneuvers.
2) To extend the conflict for entertainment purposes.

Reread those two points, because they sum up why "just doing it harder" will not convert a sports move into a combat move. They disprove the contention -- promoted by so many martial arts instructors -- that a sport move is a fighting or self-defense move.

By removing elements that would be damaging and/or lethal to the opponent, sports fighting not only minimizes the chances of injury, but also guarantees that the match will be extended. Matches continue even if the techniques are correctly applied. For example, it is demonstrable that boxing has some of the most effective punches of any system. Muay Thai is, arguably, the possessor of some of the most powerful kicks of any sport system. And yet, despite the intense pounding that participants in these sports deliver to each other, they are capable of going multiple rounds!...

Esto es lo que he estado tratando de decirte.

ElDaro escribió:Que les parecio los videos de TKD, si quieren traigo mas de KOs

yuca4ever escribió:Arte marcial no es cuando lo emplean o lo empleaban también en las batallas los guerreros?

yuca4ever escribió:Arte marcial no es cuando lo emplean o lo empleaban también en las batallas los guerreros?

[b]Hay estan dando la definicion de "Sport fighting"(Deporte de Combate) no la definicion de las "artes marciales" como te la traje yo

En la cual como puedes leer dice que el boxeo esta incluido como arte marcial.

No compares el boxeo con dos personas callendose a golpes en la calle porque una cosa no tiene nada que ver con la otra. Porque tu sepas tirar manotasos no quiere decir que seas boxeador. Al igual que porque tu sepas tirar patadas no quiere decir que seas taekwondoca. Es lo que te explique anteriormente que un arte marcial como por ejemplo el Karate, Muay thai, Jutjitsu cuando le pones reglas se combierte en "deporte de combate" que es de lo que tu hablas en esto que me trajistes

No se si porque esta en ingles quisas te tenga un poco confundido.

Pero hay en ninguna parte menciona nada de Artes marciales que es de lo que yo pensaba estabamos debatiendo. El autor del articulo que te traje explica porque el boxeo es un arte marcial. De eso estamos hablando no? Los videos que estan puesto estan comparando la pegada de las diferentes artes marciales y como ves hablan del boxeo como una de ellas. Ahora bien si tu crees que sabes mas que todos los expertos que califican el boxeo como arte marcial. Pues no hay problema hermano aunque piense que no es correcta respeto tu opinion. Saludos

ElDaro escribió:

Hay estan dando la definicion de "Sport fighting"(Deporte de Combate) no la definicion de las "artes marciales" como te la traje yo

.
Pues claro que esta es la definicion de sport fighting (deporte de combate), pues es la categoria en la que cae el boxeo, no por gusto la traje.

En la cual como puedes leer dice que el boxeo esta incluido como arte marcial.

Te aclaro de nuevo, el arte marcial es mucho mas que las peleas y el lado del combate, el boxeo NO. No se si te has dado cuenta que los "expertos" difieren bastante en sus definiciones y su forma de catalogar, pues tu trajistes un articulo que dice que el boxeo es un arte marcial y yo te he traido varios que dicen que no lo es. No me creo que se mas que nadie, pero creeme que en esto tengo bastante conocimiento sin tener que estar acudiendo a articulos rebuscados en google donde cada uno expone a su conveniencia. Practico Taekwondo hace 15 anos, y soy instructor hace 2, en este tema no improviso, pues como ves, ha sido parte de mi vida desde que era un nino. Desde hace un tiempo (mucho mas corto) tambien practico Jiujutsu, las artes marciales no son algo nuevo para mi.

No compares el boxeo con dos personas callendose a golpes en la calle porque una cosa no tiene nada que ver con la otra. Porque tu sepas tirar manotasos no quiere decir que seas boxeador. Al igual que porque tu sepas tirar patadas no quiere decir que seas taekwondoca. Es lo que te explique anteriormente que un arte marcial como por ejemplo el Karate, Muay thai, Jutjitsu cuando le pones reglas se combierte en "deporte de combate" que es de lo que tu hablas en esto que me trajistes

Reitero, no se "CONVIERTE" en un deporte de combate, el arte marcial no deja de ser arte marcial. Puede que se cree un deporte de combate, que es muy distinto al arte original(el cual no desaparece ni mucho menos). En todo caso este no es la situacion del boxeo, el cual NUNCA fue arte marcial antes de ser "boxeo". El boxeo se popularizo como deporte como mismo se popularizo el baseball, el basquetball, el soccer. Es mas si recuerdas el articulo que te traje de los Griegos, estos lo usaron en sus olimpiadas como DEPORTE, no como arte marcial.

No se si porque esta en ingles quisas te tenga un poco confundido.

Dudo que sea el caso, pues no estoy confundido y hablo espanol e ingles con fluidez.

Pero hay en ninguna parte menciona nada de Artes marciales que es de lo que yo pensaba estabamos debatiendo. El autor del articulo que te traje explica porque el boxeo es un arte marcial. De eso estamos hablando no? Los videos que estan puesto estan comparando la pegada de las diferentes artes marciales y como ves hablan del boxeo como una de ellas. Ahora bien si tu crees que sabes mas que todos los expertos que califican el boxeo como arte marcial. Pues no hay problema hermano aunque piense que no es correcta respeto tu opinion. Saludos

Bueno, aqui te voy a hacer "copy and paste", pues esto lo dije al principio del debate.

Para terminar, las artes marciales consisten en un sistema de tradiciones codificadas que van siendo pasadas de generacion en generacion, por eso a traves de un arte marcial puedes conocer la historia de una cultura. La mayoria de ellas fueron creadas para usar en la guerra, pero siempre estan relacionadas con alguna creencia o religion, ej: Hinduismo, Daoismo, budhismo, etc. El aspecto deportivo, es solo un pequeno apice de cualquier arte marcial, pues estos se basan mas en el aspecto espiritual, y en la armonia del cuerpo con la mente y del ser humano con la naturaleza o sus alrededores.

Y ahora anado, el arte marcial mas que un deporte, es una forma de vida. Sus practicantes se adhieren a un codigo comun que los guia a traves de su vida, ya sea en la guerra, como en la paz. No solo te ensena como pelear o defenderte, sino como conducirte para ser una mejor persona a traves de ensenanzas morales.

Lee bien estos 2 ultimos parrafos y dime si el boxeo se asemeja.
NO se asemeja, por lo tanto EL BOXEO NO ES UN ARTE MARCIAL, ES UN DEPORTE, con reglas, referee y expectadores. Si gustas puedes llamarlo un deporte de combate, pero de ahi no pasa.

Saludos

Socio ya dije que respetaba tu opinion aunque no la comparta. Vamos a terminar la historia sin fin porque por lo que veo ni el mismo Bruce Lee lo pudiera sacar de su error. Ya yo trate de aclararte la duda de buena fe. Ahora si quieres seguir enfuscado en que estas en lo cierto, pues te recomiendo google.com para que sigas leyendo la opinion de los "Expertos" sobre el tema. Quisas los convensas a todos ellos de que cambien de opinion porque llevas practicando taekwondo 15 anos. Saludos